Attendance policy
08/05/2016 5:55:56 PM
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Curious on what coaches allow per week,misses to able to compete on Sat. Any good ideas Coach Butler?
Curious on what coaches allow per week,misses to able to compete on Sat. Any good ideas Coach Butler?
08/05/2016 8:00:45 PM
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@runbarefoot I allow two missed practices per season. When they miss the second one they have to sit out the next meet. When they miss another one, they need to turn in uniform. In 16 years I have only had one or two kids push the limit. I have suspended kids for a week for talking back to parents or minor team rules and it kills them they can't come to practice for a week and have to run on their own.
@runbarefoot I allow two missed practices per season. When they miss the second one they have to sit out the next meet. When they miss another one, they need to turn in uniform. In 16 years I have only had one or two kids push the limit. I have suspended kids for a week for talking back to parents or minor team rules and it kills them they can't come to practice for a week and have to run on their own.
08/05/2016 8:35:12 PM
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thanks
thanks
08/05/2016 8:38:12 PM
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Please define missed practiced. Is that unexcused only? What are your policies re: excused practice for: academic reasons i.e. multiple tests next day; or other school activities i.e. DECA or leadership or; non school activities such as job or youth group or boyscouts?
Please define missed practiced. Is that unexcused only? What are your policies re: excused practice for: academic reasons i.e. multiple tests next day; or other school activities i.e. DECA or leadership or; non school activities such as job or youth group or boyscouts?
08/05/2016 9:02:58 PM
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@Dougruns26 I'm curious to hear coaches' positions on excused absences, too. Between extracurricular commitments, work, church, club soccer, etc. I don't think I EVER have every girl at practice on any given day.
@Dougruns26 I'm curious to hear coaches' positions on excused absences, too. Between extracurricular commitments, work, church, club soccer, etc. I don't think I EVER have every girl at practice on any given day.
08/05/2016 10:32:55 PM
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The contrarian view...Just had two potential student-athletes observe a practice today and when they asked about attendance policy... i told them ‘come when you get a chance ... as a coach i exist for you, the more practices you attend the better you will get.’ Now the stories that allow me to arrive at that statement…. Last year, my top runner decided to play volleyball during the xc season… and at first i was taken aback ….then once i thought about it …..i remembered “hey i exist for you”… and proceeded to tell her ‘make volleyball your priority and together we will figure out the training schedule that works for you’…. For a month I think I saw her on most Fridays and Saturdays only….i decided to show up for her first volleyball game to solidify my support…. (it was a blast.. she started her first game and had some nice kills). Mostly I just had to text her the workouts…old dogs learning new tricks… and it taught me a lot about TRUST….. Building trust worked well and she ran fast times and played volleyball. That’s like getting into the bonus round! Had a guy who just graduated …. He took three tries at breaking 23:00 his first season in xc as a sophomore…and then he decided to play baseball the spring of that year and junior year…. and always had to miss some xc practices for fall baseball during those two years… but he trusted me…we figured it out together …. He ended up running unchallenged at counties in the 3200m his senior year…and triple championed his district meet. I attribute it to “trust.” Now …..I have a 2:03 freshman 800m runner (this last track season)…..he now runs xc as a soph…today he texted after practice was over and said that he had to miss practice for a haircut. I laughed. I probably will give him a goofy, but positive comment on his haircut on Monday….with the hope that he chooses to work toward 1:53 in 3 years… I’ll also tell him “if in the future.... you decide to show up at practice as often as your coach holds practice…. real good things may happen, but in the mean time I am happy you are here today and I trust in you" The contrarian view says “Trust more … worry about attendance less.” The “life results” for both you and your athletes are worth it. EVEN IF THEIR TIMES WERE TO SUFFER.....its still worth it. Building trust is one of best parts of my job.
The contrarian view...Just had two potential student-athletes observe a practice today and when they asked about attendance policy... i told them 'come when you get a chance ... as a coach i exist for you, the more practices you attend the better you will get.'
Now the stories that allow me to arrive at that statement….
Last year, my top runner decided to play volleyball during the xc season… and at first i was taken aback ….then once i thought about it …..i remembered "hey i exist for you"… and proceeded to tell her 'make volleyball your priority and together we will figure out the training schedule that works for you'…. For a month I think I saw her on most Fridays and Saturdays only….i decided to show up for her first volleyball game to solidify my support…. (it was a blast.. she started her first game and had some nice kills). Mostly I just had to text her the workouts…old dogs learning new tricks… and it taught me a lot about TRUST….. Building trust worked well and she ran fast times and played volleyball. That's like getting into the bonus round!
Had a guy who just graduated …. He took three tries at breaking 23:00 his first season in xc as a sophomore…and then he decided to play baseball the spring of that year and junior year…. and always had to miss some xc practices for fall baseball during those two years… but he trusted me…we figured it out together …. He ended up running unchallenged at counties in the 3200m his senior year…and triple championed his district meet. I attribute it to "trust."
Now …..I have a 2:03 freshman 800m runner (this last track season)…..he now runs xc as a soph…today he texted after practice was over and said that he had to miss practice for a haircut. I laughed. I probably will give him a goofy, but positive comment on his haircut on Monday….with the hope that he chooses to work toward 1:53 in 3 years… I'll also tell him "if in the future.... you decide to show up at practice as often as your coach holds practice…. real good things may happen, but in the mean time I am happy you are here today and I trust in you"
The contrarian view says "Trust more … worry about attendance less." The "life results" for both you and your athletes are worth it. EVEN IF THEIR TIMES WERE TO SUFFER.....its still worth it.
Building trust is one of best parts of my job.
08/06/2016 1:43:48 PM
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We practice at 0630 in the morning, not many Doctors take patients at that time, and not to many NHS meetings or volleyball practices. So there really are no good excuses why you can't make practice every morning. If you make exceptions for one, you have to make them for the others. My teams are big compared to most schools our size. in 2014 at HT we 62 kids on the team and all were expected to follow the same rules, fastest or slowest. I have the same expectations for the best runner or the slowest runner. Follow the rules and give your best effort. This year at Satellite we have 42 kids and thats before freshman orientation. They had about 13 kids a couple years ago. So we must be doing something right.
We practice at 0630 in the morning, not many Doctors take patients at that time, and not to many NHS meetings or volleyball practices. So there really are no good excuses why you can't make practice every morning. If you make exceptions for one, you have to make them for the others. My teams are big compared to most schools our size. in 2014 at HT we 62 kids on the team and all were expected to follow the same rules, fastest or slowest. I have the same expectations for the best runner or the slowest runner. Follow the rules and give your best effort. This year at Satellite we have 42 kids and thats before freshman orientation. They had about 13 kids a couple years ago. So we must be doing something right.
08/06/2016 2:35:09 PM
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@coachbutler wish we could do before school practice every day but with 7:25 tardy bell in the morning just not possible. We do recovery run on Tuesday morning and easy run on Friday before school, meeting at 6. Our girls asked for it, and I gladly agreed, knowing there were no excuses at that time. Otherwise, it is 6:30 PM and club soccer, church, job, etc. is often a conflict.
@coachbutler wish we could do before school practice every day but with 7:25 tardy bell in the morning just not possible. We do recovery run on Tuesday morning and easy run on Friday before school, meeting at 6. Our girls asked for it, and I gladly agreed, knowing there were no excuses at that time. Otherwise, it is 6:30 PM and club soccer, church, job, etc. is often a conflict.
08/06/2016 4:07:07 PM
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@fortmccoyk899
08/06/2016 4:11:38 PM
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@fortmccoyk899 Coach you are very evolved .. I started as one of those " you miss two practice guys and you are out" and I know it still works for some ,,, But a better thing to learn is that when a kid " wants to be at practice" he or she will do Sooooo much better . We are also in a sport where kids can run on their own better at times than with the team . For example a kid who has a job after school might run better before school cause otherwise will have he til midnight . Again touché coach .. Well said
@fortmccoyk899

Coach you are very evolved .. I started as one of those " you miss two practice guys and you are out" and I know it still works for some ,,,

But a better thing to learn is that when a kid " wants to be at practice" he or she will do Sooooo much better .

We are also in a sport where kids can run on their own better at times than with the team . For example a kid who has a job after school might run better before school cause otherwise will have he til midnight .

Again touché coach .. Well said
08/06/2016 4:53:42 PM
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Some good ideas, thanks. Coach Butler makes a great point, that I like to follow same rules apply for everybody. If the bus is ready to leave at 6am for the meet and 22 kids are their you leave. We left one of are top runners two years ago. I didnt punish or yell at the athlete when he arrived. I talked to the athlete on Monday seperately and the problem didnt occur again.
Some good ideas, thanks. Coach Butler makes a great point, that I like to follow same rules apply for everybody. If the bus is ready to leave at 6am for the meet and 22 kids are their you leave. We left one of are top runners two years ago. I didnt punish or yell at the athlete when he arrived. I talked to the athlete on Monday seperately and the problem didnt occur again.
08/07/2016 7:19:04 PM
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mbecker….Seems we have arrived at similar pages..i will have to talk with you more in depth… don't leave coaching too quick...my direction has been the LUCK of being in the right place at the right time. In high school i was a lucky beneficiary of running in a high stakes affluent program … xc all categories state championships and national top 25 rankings were explicitly stated as the lowest level of acceptability.... they were achieved 50% of the time or more. i don’t even remember an attendance policy, you always attended and i gained a good working knowledge of dichotomous thinking ….. “its us or them,” “what doesn’t hurt you makes you stronger” and “it’s my way or the highway.” This pattern almost by necessity will influence or permeate programs with national level product expectations. Maybe Bill Aris is beyond that… don’t know …but like what i have read/seen of him. What I never saw while in high school was the collateral effects (trying to euphemize a euphemism). … maybe because my 17 year old mind and body were easily distracted by doubles and the “good” that strict rigidity provided me. In my 17 year old mind these were good times and my imagination was tired. When there was a mess, I never saw it…we were all-category state champs and national ranked and that is what I saw. runbarefoot ……i apologize for high jacking your topic last week, that was out of line and I was overly opinionated….I get worked up about that specific topic . Its clear “my way or the highway” rigidity can achieve excellent product goals in socioeconomically affluent areas. In these circumstances … there is usually that metaphorical highway (safety net) if one must take the entrance ramp ….but even that is tricky ….as the coach could make the ramp bumpy when the athlete chooses against “my way.” Egos can run big in all of us WHEN we let them. I have often felt the power of my own Ego needing to tug a student decision toward my own inclination. Leaving a program is a Separation Decision … by definition the hardest for the Ego to negotiate. If ALL my kids benefited from “attendance policies” or I could kindly escort those who needed …….too a nice highway that worked better for them……and give them my blessing….then it might find a place in my tool box. mbecker…. I am now BY LUCK on the other end of the spectrum from hs days.... and my school demographics necessitate a shift in thinking to find a different kind of success than team wins. I must be able to say “ Kid, I’m there for you unconditionally… you can’t mess up in my eyes… attend or don’t attend… do whatever you need to do, join two other sports, and get a haircut during practice…..because I’m not going anywhere.” So at this time…. rigid attendance policies will not meet the needs of my students. Attendance policies are OUT … attendance discussions are IN… and those can go on longer than I can post….. and its becoming clear I post too much.
mbecker….Seems we have arrived at similar pages..i will have to talk with you more in depth… don't leave coaching too quick...my direction has been the LUCK of being in the right place at the right time. In high school i was a lucky beneficiary of running in a high stakes affluent program … xc all categories state championships and national top 25 rankings were explicitly stated as the lowest level of acceptability.... they were achieved 50% of the time or more. i don't even remember an attendance policy, you always attended and i gained a good working knowledge of dichotomous thinking ….. "its us or them," "what doesn't hurt you makes you stronger" and "it's my way or the highway." This pattern almost by necessity will influence or permeate programs with national level product expectations. Maybe Bill Aris is beyond that… don't know …but like what i have read/seen of him. What I never saw while in high school was the collateral effects (trying to euphemize a euphemism). … maybe because my 17 year old mind and body were easily distracted by doubles and the "good" that strict rigidity provided me. In my 17 year old mind these were good times and my imagination was tired. When there was a mess, I never saw it…we were all-category state champs and national ranked and that is what I saw.
runbarefoot ……i apologize for high jacking your topic last week, that was out of line and I was overly opinionated….I get worked up about that specific topic . Its clear "my way or the highway" rigidity can achieve excellent product goals in socioeconomically affluent areas. In these circumstances … there is usually that metaphorical highway (safety net) if one must take the entrance ramp ….but even that is tricky ….as the coach could make the ramp bumpy when the athlete chooses against "my way." Egos can run big in all of us WHEN we let them. I have often felt the power of my own Ego needing to tug a student decision toward my own inclination. Leaving a program is a Separation Decision … by definition the hardest for the Ego to negotiate. If ALL my kids benefited from "attendance policies" or I could kindly escort those who needed …….too a nice highway that worked better for them……and give them my blessing….then it might find a place in my tool box.
mbecker…. I am now BY LUCK on the other end of the spectrum from hs days.... and my school demographics necessitate a shift in thinking to find a different kind of success than team wins. I must be able to say " Kid, I'm there for you unconditionally… you can't mess up in my eyes… attend or don't attend… do whatever you need to do, join two other sports, and get a haircut during practice…..because I'm not going anywhere." So at this time…. rigid attendance policies will not meet the needs of my students. Attendance policies are OUT … attendance discussions are IN… and those can go on longer than I can post….. and its becoming clear I post too much.
08/08/2016 1:46:31 PM
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@fortmccoyk899 I am dinosaur in this sport, but am not going yet. I think each coach needs to look at their own demographic issues and make their own policies. Glad the sport has 1 more adaptable new blood
@fortmccoyk899

I am dinosaur in this sport, but am not going yet. I think each coach needs to look at their own demographic issues and make their own policies. Glad the sport has 1 more adaptable new blood
08/08/2016 2:43:47 PM
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This conversation has been very helpful. I have come from the "trustful" side of things but it was time for me to toughen up. One area I have become adamant about is phoning me in person when they are missing practice. No more texts, no more emails. The reason for this was I noticed a trend to "hide behind the texts" or emails in general. Training up future adults, they need to learn to "call their boss" and talk in person. Anyway, thank you for the topic! it has been helpful Laura
This conversation has been very helpful.
I have come from the "trustful" side of things but it was time for me to toughen up.
One area I have become adamant about is phoning me in person when they are missing practice. No more texts, no more emails. The reason for this was I noticed a trend to "hide behind the texts" or emails in general. Training up future adults, they need to learn to "call their boss" and talk in person.
Anyway, thank you for the topic! it has been helpful
Laura

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